In your opinion, is Xcode 12 ready for prime time or a waste of time to upgrade to at this point?


Alex Zavatone
 

I’ve been hearing nonspecific reports of long compile times on Swift projects, black screens when projects start up, crashes opening documentation, etc.

Have any of you crazy kids upgraded yet and if so, how is the beast running for you?

Muchos thankos,
Alex Zavatone


James Walker
 

On Sep 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve been hearing nonspecific reports of long compile times on Swift projects, black screens when projects start up, crashes opening documentation, etc.

Have any of you crazy kids upgraded yet and if so, how is the beast running for you?
I’m using the 12.2 beta, and it seems fine to me. However I don’t have any Swift projects, just C++ and Objective-C. In version 12.0, I saw some weird behavior of edit fields in nib inspectors, but it seems to be fixed in 12.2.


Alex Zavatone
 

Thanks. There’s a 12.2? How can someone sign up for some sort of alert that tells us when a new version if Xcode is posted? I’m always finding out by surprise.

On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:30 PM, James Walker <list2@jwwalker.com> wrote:


On Sep 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve been hearing nonspecific reports of long compile times on Swift projects, black screens when projects start up, crashes opening documentation, etc.

Have any of you crazy kids upgraded yet and if so, how is the beast running for you?
I’m using the 12.2 beta, and it seems fine to me. However I don’t have any Swift projects, just C++ and Objective-C. In version 12.0, I saw some weird behavior of edit fields in nib inspectors, but it seems to be fixed in 12.2.




Alexander von Below
 

"Apple obviously forgot to add libnfshared.dylib for whatever reason in the final version of Xcode 12 Simulator“


‚Nuff said

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 25.09.2020 um 00:05 schrieb Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav@...>:

Thanks.  There’s a 12.2?  How can someone sign up for some sort of alert that tells us when a new version if Xcode is posted?  I’m always finding out by surprise.

On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:30 PM, James Walker <list2@...> wrote:


On Sep 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav@...> wrote:

I’ve been hearing nonspecific reports of long compile times on Swift projects, black screens when projects start up, crashes opening documentation, etc.

Have any of you crazy kids upgraded yet and if so, how is the beast running for you?

I’m using the 12.2 beta, and it seems fine to me.  However I don’t have any Swift projects, just C++ and Objective-C.  In version 12.0, I saw some weird behavior of edit fields in nib inspectors, but it seems to be fixed in 12.2.











Marco S Hyman
 

On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks. There’s a 12.2?
12.2 is beta. https://developer.apple.com/download/
The latest release is 12.0.1 https://developer.apple.com/download/release/

Apple does like to confuse people. The comment for 12.0.1 says:

For development on macOS Big Sur or to support Apple silicon,
continue to use Xcode 12 beta 6.

even though the 12.2 beta says it also includes support for building Universal apps for Macs with Apple Silicon.


Alex Zavatone
 

You’d think that the Apple Xcode team would wisen up to this newfangled so called “Internet” thing and actually provide a means for their developers to get alerts when new copies of their premier (COUGH COUGH, OH, THE CORONA HAS ME!) IDE goes live amd provide access with some sort of crazy idea such as an email or notification distrubition list.

Maybe if it could be marketed as empowering, innovative and thinner, it might have a chance of seeing the light of day.

Oh, come on, Phil. I’m speaking your language! From one Bio major to another, from one former Dover resident to my 1 year older neighbor in Natick, we can do this! I believe in you! An Xcode release email/notification list! I know some computery guys who could hook it up for ya! For real!

Begrudgingly and sarcastically,
Alex Zavatone

On Sep 24, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Marco S Hyman <marc@snafu.org> wrote:



On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks. There’s a 12.2?
12.2 is beta. https://developer.apple.com/download/
The latest release is 12.0.1 https://developer.apple.com/download/release/

Apple does like to confuse people. The comment for 12.0.1 says:

For development on macOS Big Sur or to support Apple silicon,
continue to use Xcode 12 beta 6.

even though the 12.2 beta says it also includes support for building Universal apps for Macs with Apple Silicon.




Jonathan Prescott
 

I get a notification on the Mac App Store whenever there is a new general release of Xcode.  I don’t bother with betas.  Most of the time, the App Store version works fine, but, this time around there was a distribution issue (something was left out when it was put on the App Store), so I downloaded the .xip file from developer.apple.com, which seems to be working fine.

Jonathan

On Sep 24, 2020, at 7:53 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav@...> wrote:

You’d think that the Apple Xcode team would wisen up to this newfangled so called “Internet” thing and actually provide a means for their developers to get alerts when new copies of their premier (COUGH COUGH, OH, THE CORONA HAS ME!) IDE goes live amd provide access with some sort of crazy idea such as an email or notification distrubition list.

Maybe if it could be marketed as empowering, innovative and thinner, it might have a chance of seeing the light of day.

Oh, come on, Phil.  I’m speaking your language!  From one Bio major to another, from one former Dover resident to my 1 year older neighbor in Natick, we can do this!  I believe in you!  An Xcode release email/notification list!  I know some computery guys who could hook it up for ya!  For real!

Begrudgingly and sarcastically, 
Alex Zavatone




On Sep 24, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Marco S Hyman <marc@...> wrote:



On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav@...> wrote:

Thanks.  There’s a 12.2?

12.2 is beta.  https://developer.apple.com/download/
The latest release is 12.0.1  https://developer.apple.com/download/release/

Apple does like to confuse people.  The comment for 12.0.1 says:

For development on macOS Big Sur or to support Apple silicon,
continue to use Xcode 12 beta 6.

even though the 12.2 beta says it also includes support for building Universal apps for Macs with Apple Silicon.









Alex Zavatone
 

I just got another report from someone trying to create a new project in Xcode 12 and checking the Core Data checkbox.

Is this why the failure to find ‘Item” was in my new project when I️ included Core Data checkmark?

Fun.

On Sep 24, 2020, at 10:17 PM, Jonathan Prescott via groups.io <jprescott12@...> wrote:

I get a notification on the Mac App Store whenever there is a new general release of Xcode.  I don’t bother with betas.  Most of the time, the App Store version works fine, but, this time around there was a distribution issue (something was left out when it was put on the App Store), so I downloaded the .xip file from developer.apple.com, which seems to be working fine.

Jonathan

On Sep 24, 2020, at 7:53 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav@...> wrote:

You’d think that the Apple Xcode team would wisen up to this newfangled so called “Internet” thing and actually provide a means for their developers to get alerts when new copies of their premier (COUGH COUGH, OH, THE CORONA HAS ME!) IDE goes live amd provide access with some sort of crazy idea such as an email or notification distrubition list.

Maybe if it could be marketed as empowering, innovative and thinner, it might have a chance of seeing the light of day.

Oh, come on, Phil.  I’m speaking your language!  From one Bio major to another, from one former Dover resident to my 1 year older neighbor in Natick, we can do this!  I believe in you!  An Xcode release email/notification list!  I know some computery guys who could hook it up for ya!  For real!

Begrudgingly and sarcastically, 
Alex Zavatone




On Sep 24, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Marco S Hyman <marc@...> wrote:



On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav@...> wrote:

Thanks.  There’s a 12.2?

12.2 is beta.  https://developer.apple.com/download/
The latest release is 12.0.1  https://developer.apple.com/download/release/

Apple does like to confuse people.  The comment for 12.0.1 says:

For development on macOS Big Sur or to support Apple silicon,
continue to use Xcode 12 beta 6.

even though the 12.2 beta says it also includes support for building Universal apps for Macs with Apple Silicon.










James Walker
 

On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks. There’s a 12.2? How can someone sign up for some sort of alert that tells us when a new version if Xcode is posted? I’m always finding out by surprise.
This isn’t exactly what you had in mind, but Feedback Assistant shows “News” items such as release notes for new Xcode betas or new Big Sur betas.


On Sep 24, 2020, at 3:30 PM, James Walker <list2@jwwalker.com> wrote:


On Sep 24, 2020, at 10:34 AM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve been hearing nonspecific reports of long compile times on Swift projects, black screens when projects start up, crashes opening documentation, etc.

Have any of you crazy kids upgraded yet and if so, how is the beast running for you?
I’m using the 12.2 beta, and it seems fine to me. However I don’t have any Swift projects, just C++ and Objective-C. In version 12.0, I saw some weird behavior of edit fields in nib inspectors, but it seems to be fixed in 12.2.


Andy Lee
 

On Sep 24, 2020, at 6:05 PM, Alex Zavatone via groups.io <zav=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks. There’s a 12.2? How can someone sign up for some sort of alert that tells us when a new version if Xcode is posted? I’m always finding out by surprise.
I just now set up something I've been meaning to try. I made an IFTTT account and told it to send me an email when there is a new tweet from @XcodeReleases. Will see how well it works over the next few weeks. I could also just periodically check <https://twitter.com/XcodeReleases> for anything new, but let's see if I like the automated solution.

--Andy


Andy Lee
 

On Sep 28, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Andy Lee via groups.io <aglee=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
<https://twitter.com/XcodeReleases>
Btw this is not an official Apple account. But they seem pretty on the ball with the latest updates.

Just saw their web site -- I suppose you could also write your own app to grab JSON updates, if someone hasn't done so already: <https://xcodereleases.com/>

--Andy


Carl Hoefs
 

<https://xcodereleases.com/>

I hope it would also show which versions of MacOS and iOS each release builds for...

-Carl

On Sep 28, 2020, at 2:13 PM, Andy Lee via groups.io <aglee=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

On Sep 28, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Andy Lee via groups.io <aglee=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
<https://twitter.com/XcodeReleases>
Btw this is not an official Apple account. But they seem pretty on the ball with the latest updates.

Just saw their web site -- I suppose you could also write your own app to grab JSON updates, if someone hasn't done so already: <https://xcodereleases.com/>

--Andy







Rick Aurbach
 

If I may, I’d like to move this conversation back to the original subject. I.e, is Xcode 12 ready for prime time?

Well, I haven’t had any problems with compile or link times. I am frustrated with the amount of time it takes for the debugger to display symbols on the first breakpoint of a debugging session, but that’s not why I’m writing.

My problems are with SPM and SPM/Xcode integration.

Let me explain what I’m trying to do; then I’ll list the issues that have kept me from doing it (and have resulting in more than a month of wasted effort).

Previously, I had all of my own, reusable objects packaged in a monolithic framework that was imported into all of my projects. I’ve been wanting to use SPM to break this up into manageable pieces for ages, but could not do so previously because the framework included resources. With Xcode 12 and Swift 5.3, I saw my chance. If only it had been that easy. (Note: I am working with LOCAL dependencies here, not remote, git-based ones. Your mileage may very.)

Here are the issues I’ve been having (along with their Feedback [i.e., radar] numbers. Yes, I’ve filed on all of them, for whatever good that will do.

  • My first attempt was to create packages where each one included the resources that were needed by the code in that package. (Seems reasonable, doesn’t it?) Well, this doesn’t work with package interdependencies. If packages A and B both have resources and a file in A includes “import B”, then in that file, “Bundle.module” points to B’s resource framework and generates an access error. Package A’s resources are effectively hidden from package A’s file. (FB8463461)
  • Also note that the process for including a local package dependency in Xcode is completely different that the procedure for including a remote package dependency. You cannot add a local package using the add-swift-package dialog; that only works for remote packages.(FB8116065)
  • Anyway, I moved all of the resources into a single dynamic framework and linked it into my project (and included it as part of package dependencies as appropriate. This seemed to work for a while.
  • However, I was getting a series of strange build-time errors. The system would show a number of errors, but build (and run) successfully. And stranger still, all of the errors referred to tvOS restrictions. All of these errors were from SPM packages. And the packages includes “platform” statements that did not include anything related to tvOS. (FB8196053)
  • Another problem; my code includes @IBDesignable objects that are defined in these SPM packages. And they were not correctly displayed in storyboards. (Note: this was new behavior; they worked in storyboards previously.) The storyboard indicated that there were errors building the designables - and these errors were (surprise!) the same ones that had been plaguing me previously. Hypothesis: IB (when compiling a copy of the code for use with designables) was performing a build for tvOS (with an unspecified version number), even though it wasn’t supposed to. So, I went into the code, found each of these “errors”, and  conditionalized the offending line within #if !TARGET_INTERFACE_BUILDER … #endif. The errors went away. And revealed new ones. Now the IB designables build fails because storyboards and nibs are not supported in tvOS. So @IBDesignables still doesn’t work. (FB8751858)
  • I mentioned that the resource framework worked for a while. Eventually, I got enough errors resolved to get a new one. Apparently, there was a problem with mixing local frameworks and local SPM packages; at some point in all of this, package processing couldn’t resolve the “import” statement for the framework. So I turned the framework back into an SPM package (still the only package that contained resources because of the first bullet point above.) Haven’t files that one yet...
  • Not an SPM problem, but another Xcode issue. Create a storyboard scene. Add a gesture recognizer to the scene. Attempt to link it to an object. Doesn’t work. The exit segue is linked instead. Grr. (FB8556475)

I suppose I don’t need to say that I’ve heard nothing from Apple about any of these issues. And I’ve managed to work around most (but not all) of them. But I have also wasted at least a month of my time, and I’m not particularly happy about it.

[Side Note: I really appreciate that Feedback Assistant has made it much easier to file problem reports. Unfortunately, in my experience with it, it is just as much a “black hole” as radar used to be. It is unreasonable of Apple to build a feedback system which is one-way. Feedback ought to be a two-way conversation. Without responses from Apple, it is completely unreasonable to expect that anyone would want to spend the time and effort to report a problem. Which is, I guess, a fancy way of saying that this email simply demonstrates how much of a fool I am.]

So, you tell me — is Xcode 12 ready for prime time??

Cheers,

Rick Aurbach
8233 Tulane Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132

eMail:     rlaurb@...
Phone:   314/721-7987

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it”
— Mark Twain


Ben Kennedy
 

I've found that upgrading to Xcode 12 is nearly impossible, so I've given up on even trying the newest versions.

After many contortions of deleting laughably large amounts of data from my system, I eventually installed the 12.0 RC after it was released. A few days later, Apple released a 12.0.1 update. Well, > 40 GB of free space is still not enough to install this tiny patch release:

https://twitter.com/zygoat/status/1309562213531754496

(I filed a bug, FB8742389, but nobody will be shocked to learn it's received no response at all yet.)

I dunno if it's a problem with 10.15.6, or APFS, or what, but something's seriously broken here.

b


Alex Zavatone
 

This is why I ALWAYS download the installer from /Developer/More/.   It really helps if you have > 1 Mac that you need to install this beast on.

Copy it onto an external. A fast external.

Also, I checked out the reason why it’s so large.  You can remove the platforms that you don’t need.


> I looked into this and it's all of the /system and /library folders in each of the added OSes.  iOS, iPadOS, WatchOS, and so on and so on.  With min block sizes, the app is 31 GB.  After I opened and looked at the directories, it magically became 27 GB. Thanks Apple. I hate this.

It’s a combo of minimum block sizes and support for all of the additional OSes.  Which might just be able to be deleted.  Look in ~/Library/Developer in list view, press command J and turn on Calculate All Sizes.  Both the CoreSimulator and Xcode folders may have items you don’t need. Don’t code for tvOS?  Nuke the folder.  

Also, don’t be afraid to run Ingmar’s Monolingual to get some drive space back.  It doesn’t get rid of all instances of language translations, but it will get you a few GB back.  https://ingmarstein.github.io/Monolingual/

Now, IF you have a fast external, you can move your user folder to that external by pressing control when you select your username within Users & Groups in System Preferences.  You can always create a folder called Applications within the root of your user folder and put Xcode there.


Note that it is a BAD IDEA to put Xcode on a slow drive.  Just because you may have an external SSD, make sure you profile its speed first.  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/blackmagic-disk-speed-test/id425264550?mt=12

And thanks.  Downloading 12.0.1 now.  : [

Alex Zavatone




On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Ben Kennedy <ben-groups@...> wrote:

I've found that upgrading to Xcode 12 is nearly impossible, so I've given up on even trying the newest versions.

After many contortions of deleting laughably large amounts of data from my system, I eventually installed the 12.0 RC after it was released. A few days later, Apple released a 12.0.1 update. Well, > 40 GB of free space is still not enough to install this tiny patch release:

https://twitter.com/zygoat/status/1309562213531754496

(I filed a bug, FB8742389, but nobody will be shocked to learn it's received no response at all yet.)

I dunno if it's a problem with 10.15.6, or APFS, or what, but something's seriously broken here.

b